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Matt31
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 Posted: 26 May 08 1:36 am |
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Mods, I know there is a Rock Band Thread, But this is a serious matter! There Is genuine concern the Rock Band Peripherals are 2nd Hand refurbished Units from America! I hope to god these suspicions are not true because from evidence gathered it's looking grim...
So after getting Rock Band today I take it home and Unpack the contents to and set up my drums. At this point I'm happy as larry but I notice the serial number on the inner box is stuck on and doesnt look quite right. I know this happens frequently in Retail as I've seen similar boxes where I work. I take no notice.
I unpack the Guitar which feels very flimsy and sounds like things are rolling around inside- I'm beginning to think this investment feels a bit shoddy...
I turn the game on, I play the drums, while 2 other people share the vocals and Lead guitar. No complaints, were having fun and we can see this is shaping up to be a great game!
After a while, I realise the red pad on the drum doesnt seem to register, I put this down to it being my left hand which I use to hit it at first but after a while it's apparent I'm hitting it and it's not registering.
I Jump on this forum and am going to praise the game and comment on my dodgy red pad until I see Ord's post regarding the controls being refurbs.
After a while I've found some interesting reading and things start crawling out of the woodwork including marks on Pads...
Official Rock Band Forum
Click Here
Thank's Ord For this Post in OXM's Rock Band Thread
Box Shot
Click Here
This is an image of an Inner box which looks similar to mine, the only difference is mine is a brown sticker and less obvious. It still peals off to reveal an old serial
NEW Drums already modded
http://rockband.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9000
Interesting article about a member that was going to mod his drums only to find they'd already been modded. Not sure if the post is true, but if so confirms the above allegations.
Version Guide
Click Here
Again, Thanks to Ord in the Rock Band thread... This should help determine which model of drums you have. Mine seems to be the 'QM' and except for the red pad I have no other quarms with it.
In conclusion, I'm slightly torn. RB is undisputably an amazing game, but the thought of paying 3x the Price for americas crap leaves me with a sick feeling! It's clearly not labelled as 2nd Hand and I assume if true this is Illegal and from experience I know you'd have to go through the retailer via trading standards.
It would appear most people ordered from Play.com that notice these box traits, but all the same, the news is disturbing and I'm sure theres people who will try putting me at ease, but please answer the following if they're not refurbs:
-Why is Europe getting the supposedly inferior EL and QM Drum models and not the latest SL? (Especially when the popularity would make you assume they'd run out of older models 1st)
-Why are old serial numbers taped over on the inner boxing?
-Why are people complaining of Marks on their Drum out of the box?
-Why Has someone found pennies in their NEW drum!?!?
I would be interested to hear thoughts and comments on this, maybe even find out which models people have because I could be taking it to Watchdog. |
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Smeep
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| Posted: 26 May 08 3:43 am |
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I'll have a sniff about mine - if I'm paying for a new product, I want a new product.
I could understand if I sent one back faulty and got a refurb, but I'll be whoopin' some ass if I bought a second hand product. |
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SMC92
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| Posted: 26 May 08 9:10 am |
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My Guitar has marks on it straight outta the box, i nearly got sick thinking i paid €100 quid on a second hand guitar.
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TheRealZOMBIE
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| Posted: 26 May 08 9:30 am |
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It might be a serious matter, but I still don't see how it warrants a whole thread to itself. |
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Chris2112
Banned
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| Posted: 26 May 08 2:17 pm |
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That is bloody disgraceful!
It sounds like a case of misrepresentation to me.
I've looked in my copy of Contract Law by Ewan McKendrick, to see what the law says about this.
It seems if you were buying these instruments as "new", or under the reasonable assumption that they were new, then you have been given an "unambiguous false statement of fact...which induces that party (you) to enter into a contract".
The logic being, had you not thought they were new items, you would not have payed what you did for them, and thus, not entered into a contract. So inducement is clearly present imo. One thing to note that, if you seek damages for misrepresentation of the goods, then the mis-statement of fact must be tangiable, as silence cannot form a misrepresentation (eg not mentioning that the items were "new" in an invitation to treat). If you can prove that what you were being sold was purported to be "new", your case can move forward. Given the fact that it seems some work has been done in earnest to "rebrand" these items by giving them new serial numbers and replacing the stickers, what could have been construed as a negligent misrepresentation now appears to be a fraudulent misrepresentation. You may either be able to rescind on your contract or claim damages under the tort of deceit. Best of luck!
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SMC92
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| Posted: 26 May 08 2:52 pm |
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I have a EL, its okay appart from the red drum the odd time
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Master Baihu
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| Posted: 26 May 08 3:18 pm |
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| TheRealZOMBIE wrote: | | It might be a serious matter, but I still don't see how it warrants a whole thread to itself. |
Really? If this is true then its rather shocking and probably deserves a topic for itself.
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vrossi46
Moderator
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| Posted: 26 May 08 5:15 pm |
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| Master Baihu wrote: | | TheRealZOMBIE wrote: | | It might be a serious matter, but I still don't see how it warrants a whole thread to itself. |
Really? If this is true then its rather shocking and probably deserves a topic for itself. |
I agree.
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"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else". |
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Smeep
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| Posted: 26 May 08 6:38 pm |
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So I decided to contact Harmonix about this, I doubt I'll get a reply but here's a copy of the email I've sent.
| Quote: |
Hello, my name is blankblank.
First and foremost, let me take a moment to thank you for taking the time to open this email - I'm sure you're being inundated with similar emails at this moment in time.
I'm a proud owner of Rock Band and I'm thoroughly enjoying the experience, even if I'm a little rusty at the drums. However, I've been reading up on various forums and websites all across the net and come across some nasty rumours unfortunately that all seem to have a decent amount of supporting evidence. I run a small website and I've posted a short report on my findings. I'd like to get a reply from yourselves that I might post on my website regarding said rumours.
The rumours I've been reading all revolve around the fact that Europe and the UK are receiving refurbished units to retail stores. Supporting arguments for this include damaged-upon-opening guitars, replaced serial number stickers, marked drums and most shockingly, Drums that have been pre-modified. (Using the penny mod)
I was hoping to get a response to this - whether it's slamming these rumours with a discrediting statement or giving a valid reason as to why people are receiving them. Either way, I look forward to your response.
Yours,
blankblank |
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Matt31
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| Posted: 26 May 08 11:36 pm |
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Hmm 
I'm not sure if Harmonix is the right place?
They were developers, EA were distributors and I thought MTV were the publisher...
By that, I'd assume EA owned the factories that made the Peripherals and printed the discs Not sure tho...
In all the excitement, I forgot to mention my main concern was with the guitar and not the Drum! (My Drum seems fine bar the Red Pad)
I opened the Guitar yesterday and had that gut feeling you have when you buy from GAME and they get the disc out of a cupboard and you realise it's gonna have finger prints all over it 
The Guitar didnt have fingerprints on it, but it had that kind of greasy sheen my GH Les Paul has from hours of play. It's hard to explain, but for something brand new out of the box it looked and felt like it should have been from Gamestations Window.
Ho hum.  |
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shinesevens
Moderator
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| Posted: 26 May 08 11:38 pm |
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I think the most shocking thing is the game + all the instruments in the US is £85... and the cheapest I have seen the bundle in the UK £140.
The kids saw this at the weekend and went nuts for it, at £85 I might have considered but £140 is just taking the piss, and now this...
Bad. |
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Matt31
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| Posted: 27 May 08 1:08 am |
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| shinesevens wrote: | I think the most shocking thing is the game + all the instruments in the US is £85... and the cheapest I have seen the bundle in the UK £140.
The kids saw this at the weekend and went nuts for it, at £85 I might have considered but £140 is just taking the piss, and now this...
Bad. |
The whole thing is just one big dissapointment. 1st having to wait 8 months, then the price announcement, then this... It just puts a big grey cloud that overshadows an amazing game which is really fun and enjoyable to play that I would recommend people to buy for £100 in normal circumstances.
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Chris2112
Banned
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| Posted: 27 May 08 9:39 am |
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| shinesevens wrote: | I think the most shocking thing is the game + all the instruments in the US is £85... and the cheapest I have seen the bundle in the UK £140.
The kids saw this at the weekend and went nuts for it, at £85 I might have considered but £140 is just taking the piss, and now this...
Bad. |
Well, this will provide a valuable lesson for them, "I want never gets" and as a bonus, it will teach them that crap stuff shouldn't be bought!
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I guess they would say we could set the world ablaze |
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Andy McNob
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| Posted: 27 May 08 12:12 pm |
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So all the outcry and whining about the price prior to launch didn't change anything. Some suckers still bought the bloody thing and are now complaining cos they think they've been shafted? Gluttons for punishment. 
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Saying what everyone else is too "P.C." or afraid to say since 1999.
www.xbox-scene.com |
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SMC92
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| Posted: 27 May 08 2:05 pm |
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Well i just went to Gamestop to tell them about my red pad not working, here is what happened...
Walked to the counter, told him just as a finished saying rockband drum kit he said its nothing to do with us, ring them.
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Matt31
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| Posted: 27 May 08 4:45 pm |
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| Andy McNob wrote: | | So all the outcry and whining about the price prior to launch didn't change anything. Some suckers still bought the bloody thing and are now complaining cos they think they've been shafted? Gluttons for punishment. |
You Kinda Missed the point...
You buy something Brand New and get it home to find it's already been used. The price point isnt a factor in this as it's illegal in this country to sell 2nd hand gear as new. |
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Defdum Blindkid
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| Posted: 27 May 08 6:26 pm |
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MS are selling consoles they know don't work properly, new or otherwise, so I'm not sure how worried people should be about the plastic pretend musical instruments that plug into them.
It is a poor show, definately, but where MS are concerned anything seems possible. |
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shinesevens
Moderator
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| Posted: 27 May 08 7:06 pm |
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| SMC92 wrote: | Well i just went to Gamestop to tell them about my red pad not working, here is what happened...
Walked to the counter, told him just as a finished saying rockband drum kit he said its nothing to do with us, ring them. |
Wrong - under UK consumer law your contract is with the shop not the manufacturer. Phone the shop, ask for the manager. Tell them politely that you are coming in to the store and you expect a swap.
If they still refuse, ask the manager their name and let them know you will be complaining to trading standards and their HQ.
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Smeep
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| Posted: 27 May 08 7:44 pm |
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This case is the exception to the rule.
At the store, you are entitled to a full refund. If you want a replacement unit, you have to do it through EA - it states so on the box that if you have any faulty equipment you should NOT go to the store. |
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levi35
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| Posted: 27 May 08 8:03 pm |
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i bought the drums yesterday and i can definately tell they had been played before because they had slight marks all over them,they're the el ones so it looks like i could have some refurbs,they seem to work ok though but the red pad seems to miss sometimes,either that or its my timing and paranoia from reading this thread! it always seems to be the red drum talked about though doesn't it? |
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vrossi46
Moderator
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| Posted: 27 May 08 8:21 pm |
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| Smeep wrote: | This case is the exception to the rule.
At the store, you are entitled to a full refund. If you want a replacement unit, you have to do it through EA - it states so on the box that if you have any faulty equipment you should NOT go to the store. |
Bollocks.
If the engine blows on a new car, I will be going to the dealer that sold it for a refund or a replacement. It's the dealers' responsibility to deal with the aftermath.
Same for anything.
_________________
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else". |
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shinesevens
Moderator
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| Posted: 27 May 08 8:30 pm |
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| Smeep wrote: | This case is the exception to the rule.
At the store, you are entitled to a full refund. If you want a replacement unit, you have to do it through EA - it states so on the box that if you have any faulty equipment you should NOT go to the store. |
No terms or conditions by a manufacturer can override UK law. They might ask you to go back to the manufacturer, but I doubt they can make it stick.
What I would do is ask the store for a full refund. I would then re-purchase the game. |
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Matt31
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| Posted: 28 May 08 12:05 am |
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| Smeep wrote: | This case is the exception to the rule.
At the store, you are entitled to a full refund. If you want a replacement unit, you have to do it through EA - it states so on the box that if you have any faulty equipment you should NOT go to the store. |
UK Law Definately states that if an item shows symptoms of an inherent fault, then as long as it's within reason, the store have to find a way of fixing the problem whether it be through a repair or refund/ exchange. The Onus is on the store and not the Manufacturer.
I experienced it with my 360, the machine was a week out of warranty and M$ wouldnt fix it for free, so under the old regime I took it back to the shop for an exchange on the basis that something worth £280 shouldnt break after just over a year and I should pay another 70 quid to get it fixed. They swapped the console out right which was fine, but they could deflect me back to M$ and their repair service with the current 5 year warranty.
EA probably can write something similar but even they have to live by the law of the land. To write anything on the box like that, it'll speed the process up because if a store was to redirect you to EA's returns service then they'd be well within their right assuming the repair was free.
The thing that seems to be getting missed though is something 2nd Hand is being sold as new! Yes, a similar process would be involved as the seller is the one you'd have to go through but it's a whole different kettle of fish.
Another curveball I'd throw in is some laws don't apply to buying online- Those who've brought from Play.com may wanna check those rules as they could differ slightly.
I was thinking about DL content earlier on- maybe this is why the game was sold seperately- Afterall, You can own the game without buying the instruments, and if there was a huge recall (with game going back with instruments as part of the set) lots of people will be wanting refunds for song downloads- This way, M$ is covered... |
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Andy McNob
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| Posted: 28 May 08 5:50 am |
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| levi35 wrote: | | i bought the drums yesterday and i can definately tell they had been played before because they had slight marks all over them,they're the el ones so it looks like i could have some refurbs,they seem to work ok though but the red pad seems to miss sometimes,either that or its my timing and paranoia from reading this thread! it always seems to be the red drum talked about though doesn't it? |
That bit made me "lol".
Seriously, if you are in any doubt about whether your toys are brand new or not, just take them back and demand a product that is brand new and reflects the price you're paying. Otherwise, demand half of your money back.
If enough people do it, things might happen. 
_________________
Saying what everyone else is too "P.C." or afraid to say since 1999.
www.xbox-scene.com |
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BBIAJ
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| Posted: 28 May 08 9:28 am |
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Indian Drum
Players:
Mark McKinney
Kevin McDonald
Scene:
Mark, standing in front of colourful brick wall, holding cymbals Kevin, perched on outside window ledge above Mark, holding drum.
Mark: I've lost my indian drum.
[crashes cymbals twice]
I've lost my drum.
[clash]
I've lost my indian drum.
Kevin: [hits drum once]
I have your drum...
[beat]
Your drum is mine.
[two beats]
I have your drum...
[beat]
She's doing fine.
Mark: [clash]
But I've lost my drum...
[clash]
My drum is gone.
[two clashes]
Soon it will be Autumn,
[clash]
My God what have I done!
[three clashes]
Kevin: [beat]
I have your drum...
[two beats]
Your drum is mine.
[two beats]
I will treat her poorly,
[beat]
There's no need to whine.
[two beats]
Mark: [clash]
Drum lost!
Kevin: Drum found!
[beat]
Mark: Drum lost!
[clash]
Kevin: Drum found...
Mark: [clash]
No drum, no party!
[clash]
Kevin: I have your drum.
Mark: Where's my indian drum?
Kevin: Look skyward, moron!
Mark: I am!
[clash]
I see no drum...
Drum lost!
[two clashes]
Kevin: Look up!
Mark: Drum lost!
[two clashes]
Kevin: Look over here!
Mark: Drum lost!
[two clashes]
Kevin: Your drum is here.
Mark: I've lost my drum.
Sorry, but all this talk of drums just reminded me of this classic early The Kids In The Hall sketch... |
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