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Feature: Midway Gamers Day

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Interview: Mark Rein

19-Apr-2008 Epic's Vice President talks about Unreal Tournament 3, 50 Cent and what makes games a big seller...

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It's safe to say that over the past few years, Epic's Mark Rein has become one of the genuine prized interviews in the gaming industry to land.

Not just because he's the man who oversees games like Gears Of War 2 or Unreal Tournament 3 and not just because the Unreal Engine 3 powers more games than you realise (did you know it's used in TNA Impact?). The main reason is because he's honest and he has a lot to say.

When OXM grabbed him at Midway's Gamer Day, we were the penultimate interview of the night, always a nightmare slot as most interviewees have had enough of being asked the same question over and over again by that point. But Rein remained in good spirits and was happy to talk about whatever questions we threw his way - and here they are...

How will Unreal Tournament 3 fare alongside the 360's big hitters, Call Of Duty 4 and Halo 3?
Well, it's not one of those big story driven games like Call Of Duty 4 and Halo 3, so let's not get ridiculous expectations. But you know, the game's done well, we've already shipped 1.2 million units on the other two platforms and Xbox 360 is obviously the big daddy of console platforms right now, so let's keep our fingers crossed that Xbox 360 owners want to give it a shot.

One of the additions to the Xbox 360 version is five new maps and two new characters. Will they be coming to PlayStation3 as well?
For now, they're exclusive to Xbox 360. I don't know what will happen in the future.

How did the modding situation with Microsoft work out? Obviously, that was one of the biggest sticking points that caused the delay...
Yeah. Well, we're still working on it, so I'm cautiously optimistic right now based on some conversations I had with John Shafner last week. Regardless, we know some of these great mods are going to play a role on Xbox 360, even if we have to get some people and bring them over ourselves. We'll figure it out. I'm cautiously optimistic. I don't think we're going to have user exchanged mods in the shipping version of the game because that's coming pretty soon. Hopefully we'll have some solution down the road.

So you think Microsoft will make a compromise then?
I don't want to speak for them but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

We've seen a lot of games today that have used Unreal Engine 3...
Yup. Well, look at this one, TNA Impact. It looks fantastic. And you know what? It doesn't look anything like Gears Of War or Unreal Tournament 3, go figure. You can make games with our engine that look nothing like our games [laughs].

Have you played it yet?
I have not but I'm looking forward to it.

What about the other games here?
Wheelman and... This Is Vegas looks fantastic.

Have you played This Is Vegas?
Yeah, I played some of the gambling stuff, it's pretty cool. And then of course, it's not playable here but the next Mortal Kombat game is going to be great. We know Midway has other games in development too. I think Midway has done a really great job of embracing Unreal Engine technology and making it their own. We're really proud of the games they're making.

These games have been in development for quite a while because there's been an ambitious project to bring their tech, unrepenting system that's built on top of UE3 but I think ultimately, it's going to pay off handsomely for them. I think it's a great idea.

The new 50 Cent game uses Unreal Engine 3 as well.
That's right.

I've heard that you've been quite impressed with that game.
I saw it last summer and oh my god, there is so much stuff going on. I like Stranglehold, I love those really kind of cool, high action campaign games. Grand Theft Auto, things like that. When I saw it last summer, it looked really fun. It looks like a game with a lot of potential.

I know I'm getting ribbed for it because the first game I guess, people don't feel it's of the greatest quality, but the truth is that this is a different team and these Swordfish guys, they know their stuff. I think they're going to make a fun game. It looks like a game I want to play.

A lot of people have written it off already, mostly because of the 50 Cent name.
That's just silly. I think 50 Cent is a pretty cool guy. I saw him on MTV Cribs [laughs]. That's not my sphere of influence but at the same time, the game looks really fun. It's got some really, really great environments and a lot of detail. I mean, this was last year when I saw it, so I'm sure it's even better now. I thought wow, in terms of quality on the screen, this looks really really good. I'm impressed with those guys, I think it's a good team.

And you guys have Gears Of War 2 on the way. How's that working out so far?
It's going to be a good game.

How will Epic handle the online side? Gears Of War was popular online but it had its problems with host advantage and lag.
I'm not here today to talk about Gears Of War 2 but I'll tell you, it's a much better game.

So the online side will be sorted out?
I'm not here to talk about Gears Of War 2 but it's a much better game than the original. And you know, there might be a little Gears Of War 2 related surprise on the disc of Unreal Tournament 3. That's all I'm saying about that.

That's all you're saying?
That's all I'm saying.

When do we find out about that?
Soon.

You're not going to say anymore? You can't drop a bomb like that and walk away from it!
Sure I can. I just did! [laughs]

Okay. Going back to Unreal Tournament 3, with Call Of Duty 4 and Halo 3 dominating Xbox Live, how...
Er, excuse me! Gears Of War is still in the top five.

But it's not number one anymore.
Oh wow, it's still in the top five! Gears Of War was intended to be a great single player game and with as good a multiplayer as we could squeeze in in the time allowed. I think even we were surprised. It stayed number one for ten months. It's still in the top five and I think that's fantastic.

One thing I've heard a lot about Gears Of War was multiplayer played second fiddle to single player during development.
Sure. When you make a game like that... the big numbers, when you talk about what you can sell, what's commercially popular... the big selling games are all single player games. Multiplayer games... it's a niche.

That's why I find it almost laughable when people say Unreal Tournament 3 didn't do very well, when it's already shipped over 1.2 million copies on two of the three platforms. That's spectacular. That's great for Unreal Tournament. It's a multiplayer orientated game. You can play it offline and against bots but it's the kind of game that it feels it needs to be a multiplayer game, so it's actually done very, very well.

It kind of surprises me when people talk about it and say it didn't sell like Call Of Duty 4, which is a great, fantastic, well designed single player game in the way Gears and Halo and Grand Theft Auto and pretty every big selling game in the history of big selling games was built for single player first and if it even has multiplayer, multiplayer second.

That's just how it works in the business. So single player, big story driven, kind of epic action movie kind of game, that's what we set out to make. So yes, multiplayer was something that was... somewhat secondary but obviously, the guys worked their butts off on it. I don't want to belittle the effort there. A lot of effort was put into it. But it's a percentage of the overall effort that's put into the game.

Excuse the pun, but do you think there are unrealistic expectations put upon Unreal?
Sure. I think that people just have unrealistic expectations of expecting every game to do millions and millions of units. To be honest, I'll bet there are tons of developers who would kill to have a million seller like Unreal Tournament 3. We're pleased with it.

When Unreal Tournament 3 is released, how do you think it will do as far as the Xbox Live charts go?
I have no idea. I think... to be number one on Xbox 360 Live, you have to have a massive install base. So I don't think it's possible for Unreal Tournament 3 to have a Gears Of War style install base for the reasons I mentioned earlier. It's not a huge single player game, so we're not going to sell five million of them. So I don't know. We'll just have to wait and see.

Will Unreal Tournament 3 break the Call Of Duty 4 and Halo 3 stranglehold on the top two spots?
I can't imagine that. That would be a shock. Even making the top ten, when you look at the games there these days, that's pretty tough. There's some very long-term games like Rock Band and Guitar Hero that won't leave the top ten, ever. So it will be tougher and tougher for a new game to even make the top ten, let alone make the top five or the top three.

Gears Of War 2... I think that has a pretty good shot [laughs]. Because the first game was so successful and we've made a lot of improvements. Unreal Tournament, I don't think. I wouldn't get my hopes up for that kind of thing. We're just happy to get lots of people playing it, have a great game, the gameplay's great, tons of maps when you add the DLC and exclusive stuff together. It's great value.

Ryan King