Xbox 720 to support Blu-Ray, but not second-hand games - rumour

I reckon if they made it unable to play 2nd-hand games, it would be the biggest mistake they ever made....Having worked in Game, I know how big the 2nd hand market is, and they'd be losing out on a lot of sales of DLC, as most people who buy pre-owned at least get some of that....

Once again, I have to say that rather than get rid of the 2nd-hand market, I don't understand why measures aren't taken to insure companies get a percentage of what 2nd-hand sales make..surely it would be in everyones interests to work out a way to do this rather than see a huge market disappear completely?

I like the idea of it playing Blu-Rays, as that's something I always wanted for the Xbox 360. However, if there is no support for second-hand games, then as much as I'd like a next gen Xbox, I definitely wouldn't buy it.

I don't get too much money, so it's hard for me to pay for brand new games. I've pre-ordered MGS:HD, and I pre-ordered Skyrim, but that's about it for the last year. I'd like to get games new to support developers, but simply can't afford to. I buy so many pre-owned games, if Microsoft stopped supporting them, I wouldn't have much to play.

Simply put, without Pre-owned games, I'd only own a few games, to the point where it isn't much use owning the console. I know it's due to only the stores getting money from sales, and not the companies, but without pre-owned games, I probably wouldn't have bought Skyrim or MGS, as I likely wouldn't have got Oblivion and the original MGS's for PS2. I'm sure I won't be the only one with this opinion.
It's a terrible idea as far I'm concerned.

Like what the above have mentioned, I think preventing pre-owned games from being able to be played would be a huge mistake. I guess it's just the evolution of the current 'online-pass' schemes that EA and other companies have adopted. However, blu-ray would be an awesome addition!

All good news except for the second hand game part. Thats just unfair and shows how evil corporations can be really, at risk of sounding like a mental conspiracist. I like lending games to my friends, if it is true I'll be annoyed - also would be another thing that PS fanboys could insult us about.

Would this work by burning something on to the disk, like an ID number? Blu ray yes, second-hand no. Me and my mates always swap and borrow games, it's a long running tradition for games consoles; to take this away would be a pretty stupid idea and greedy, considering how much money they must make from selling games even with 'losing' second hand sales.

Blu-ray is controlled by Sony, so it's unlikely they'll allow it to be used in the console of their main competitor. The next Xbox will most likely use similar, but proprietary, technology, following the example of Nintendo's not-quite-DVD optical disc format. This will help prevent piracy, since PC Blu-ray writers have been on the market for years.

Nebulous claims of somehow shutting out the second-hand market are laughable. Retailers would refuse to stock a console they couldn't make any money out of. Remember the PSP Go, anyone?

The only claim that has any weight is that Kinect will be included/integrated, and EVERYONE has been saying that since Kinect came out!

Also, it's funded by the Illuminatti.

The use of Blu Ray isn't really a surprise, but it will be the biggest mistake Microsoft ever make if they ban second hand gaming. The second hand games industry is big business. Alot of Xbox users like myself, can't afford new games every month, especially in the current economic climate, we trade in completed titles and use the funds to go towards new ones. If we can't afford a new game then I'll buy a pre-owned game instead. Who in their right minds is going to pay £45 for each new game that comes out if they can never sell that game on or trade it in? If its true then they risk turning the next Xbox into a toy that only the Elite rich can afford. I'm 35, and I work full time as a computer engineer, and even I wouldn't be able to afford to stay with Xbox if this was the case. I've got more important things to do, like feed my family and keep a roof over my head!

If they really wanted to kill the second hand (pre-owned) market then they only have to charge less for new games . . . and as for their dev costs argument . . . hollywood's big budget movies come onto the market for around the £15 mark and they have a similar production cost.

and as for their dev costs argument . . . hollywood's big budget movies come onto the market for around the £15 mark and they have a similar production cost.

You mean those devs that many of which can't afford to produce games anymore and have to 'sell their souls' to publishers just to fund said projects? Similar production costs too? Games can take 18 months to five years to produce, a film taking that long would be canned. The sheer volume of people working on games nowadays is ever increasing too and they don't work for free - does anyone seriously think with next gen these numbers will go down? The games will get even more expensive to produce, 'we' as gamers will still demand bigger, better, more innovative games, oh but yeah, we also want to pay a lot less to fund these needs and wants...

Let them block pre-owned games, maybe let them be played on another xbox if registered to someone on your friends list, at the same time, lets drop half of the chaff from the 360 release schedule and go back to quality titles being released rather than the constant stream that though decent, is hardly (skyrim aside) setting the world on fire. Seriously though, this won't happen!

For what it's worth too, these are also only rumours of which we'll have another 5000 before the reveal so boatloads of salt should be on hand.

If they were serious about Kinect, they'd split the controller down the middle into two. Same controls and buttons, only in two parts.

I'm really finding it hard to believe they'd even consider for a moment blocking second hand games. Complete suicide.

Dont think they would ever block the sale of pre owned games, just imagine the up roar, and i dont think it would sell very much if they did. i for one would not buy it as i hardly ever buy new games, only one i actually brought brand new was battlefield 3 limited edition version because of the free dlc, most of my games are pre owned and when i want a new release i re-trade them. simple! still its just a rumor so dont have much faith in it

I'd like the 720 to use HDDVD because the data transfer rates are too slow on Blu-ray, you would have to install every game to the Hard Drive which means you might as well use cheaper DVD's and install 3 disks.
They could always use a HDDVD/Blu-Ray dual drive?
Also IMO Kinect will definitely NOT be built into the console, because 1) kinect moves (destroyed disk anyone) 2) You Cant Blu-tac a console to the top of your telly and 3) They wont want to lose the money on stand alone sales (This 3rd point is probably the only valid one).
Don't think the second hand thing is true but then again I thought Microsoft would never let Game companies charge us for multiplayer when we already pay for Live Gold?? thats how much i know

i really hope that microsoft never stop second hand games working on the 720,as i buy games,complete them,lose interest and then trade them in to get money off the next release.and if they ever did this i would have a large collection of games that i would never play again.i think that the game shops should give the developers a share of all of the second hand profits.

I don't think i have actually EVER bought a second hand game! but i still think its a bad idea to exclude it.

Why should these publishers/developers make money from games they have already made money on.

If i give a friend half of my can of coke, should i charge my friend and submit the payment to coca cola, not i shouldn't.

When you sell your car do the manufacturers take a piece of the profits from the sale, no they don't.

Why should games be any different than any other item sold second hand, as far as i'm concerned if i buy a game new then it becomes my property.

If i wish to sell my property then i have ever right to do so.

Disgusting behavior by these silly companies who are only going to alienate themselves from the very people who keep their lunch on the table, i mean how much profit is enough?

MW3 made over $1 billion in the first 16 days and other games are the same, where is all this money going?

Blu-ray is controlled by Sony, so it's unlikely they'll allow it to be used in the console of their main competitor. The next Xbox will most likely use similar

Ur actually wrong, Bluray is made up of 9 companies, The companies are:

Sony Corporation
20th Century Fox
Dell
Hewlett Packard
Hitachi
LG Electronics
Panasonic Corporation
Mitsubishi Electric
Philips
Pioneer
Samsung Electronics
Sharp
TDK
Thomson

the only reason peoplel think its PONY That came up with bluray is because its in the their console,
so there is no reason it wouldnt make it into the nextbox. Sony dont own it they just have the market share because its in their PS3.

If they were serious about Kinect, they'd split the controller down the middle into two. Same controls and buttons, only in two parts.

I'm really finding it hard to believe they'd even consider for a moment blocking second hand games. Complete suicide.

At the end of the day EVERYONE IS SPECULATING, ill believe none of it untill i see some specs,
on another website they reckon it can play PC ONLY Games too!! total horseshit!
when i see specs ill start believing. FACT!

anti 2nd hand tech won't happen. If the next xbox was released WITH it Sony would release the PS4 without it and everyone will flip over to them. The only reason Microsoft would do this is if Sony are doing it too, or they have deals in place with publishers to make it worth their while, after all, the 2nd hand market doesn't really affect Microsoft directly, they produce the console, not the games. Sure, yes, they do have some in house games, but really not that many and they wouldn't do this just to protect their sales of Fable. I truly can't see it happening.

and as for their dev costs argument . . . hollywood's big budget movies come onto the market for around the £15 mark and they have a similar production cost.

You mean those devs that many of which can't afford to produce games anymore and have to 'sell their souls' to publishers just to fund said projects? Similar production costs too? Games can take 18 months to five years to produce, a film taking that long would be canned. The sheer volume of people working on games nowadays is ever increasing too and they don't work for free - does anyone seriously think with next gen these numbers will go down? The games will get even more expensive to produce, 'we' as gamers will still demand bigger, better, more innovative games, oh but yeah, we also want to pay a lot less to fund these needs and wants...

Added to what Sid said don't forget sales figures. The biggest selling franchise in gaming sells 5-6 million copies total. The biggest films sell 5-6 million in US alone ON DAY ONE. Films have a quicker turn around (the fastest, on a bet, was 28 days from script writing to being release ready) compared to games 2-5 years and, yes you're right DVD do launch at £15, but that's only because film companies think of DVD as a bonus in addition to their main income which is cinema. A more direct comparison would be DVD to DLC, a nice little bonus they aren't too fussed if you buy or not.

Blu-ray is controlled by Sony, so it's unlikely they'll allow it to be used in the console of their main competitor. The next Xbox will most likely use similar

Ur actually wrong, Bluray is made up of 9 companies, The companies are:

Sony Corporation
20th Century Fox
Dell
Hewlett Packard
Hitachi
LG Electronics
Panasonic Corporation
Mitsubishi Electric
Philips
Pioneer
Samsung Electronics
Sharp
TDK
Thomson

the only reason peoplel think its PONY That came up with bluray is because its in the their console,
so there is no reason it wouldnt make it into the nextbox. Sony dont own it they just have the market share because its in their PS3.

Look up Kiretsu on Wikipedia. It's how the Japanese do business and basically means half the names on that list are the same company.

I can definitely see the games companies and the console manufacturers killing off second hand games trading, and I'm actually all for that, providing there is a solution that favours us as consumers. You can't blame the developers for wanting as much revenue as possible from their games. The shops trading in second hand games are making pure profit from a product they've already sold to you, yet nobody seems to have a problem with this. When the people who actually crafted the game want to maximise their profit so that they make enough revenue to keep producing games, the majority of people think it's unfair.

The solution?:-

Each new game should come with a unique one-use CD Key, which once registered is locked to that user (don't know how you'd achieve this for people who are not online but that's something they'd have to figure out). The game will only work with this key. Separate keys for people who want to buy second hand from a friend or swap games can be bought at a reduction (as in the price of a second hand game-maybe half the RRP?) from games retailers (so they don't lose out).

Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo should then make a pact to not supply retailers who trade in second hand games.

Thus protecting the industry.

To be honest with the lack of quality games at the moment (same old stuff) and them releasing the games every week that are below average i am starting to buy pre owned a lot more just to try out some of the less well known games. If they take away the pre owned option i for one will move to PS network.

They get plenty money as it is they reuse the same engine and then sell the engine to other company’s so they can also design games on it and make money there.

Games company’s now are ran by financial advisors not gamers hence the reason we are getting no thought put into the new games they are just copy’s of old ones with better graphics.

I don't particularly like the idea of no second hand games, but what if the prices of new games were dropped by say £10-£15 from the start? Would that sway people?

It may be 6 times more powerful then the Xbox 360, but my PC will still make it weep in the corner. When windows 8 comes out I'm ditching my Xbox completely.

Look up Kiretsu on Wikipedia. It's how the Japanese do business and basically means half the names on that list are the same company.

They aren't the same, they hold a stake in other Japanese company's to stop western investment, keeping them majority Japanese. If Sony had a problem why do half of the company's on that list already make drives for the 360?

What ever the spec as long as they keep the controller the same size it'll be fine by me.

I concur with most of the above. Blu-Ray would be expensive and give money to Sony, which Microsoft is unlikely to do - one of the reasons it's done so well with the Xbox is that it didn't include a high-def physical format - and blocking used games would drive people to other platforms.

Looking forward to another year of nonsense "rumour" stories before Microsoft actually starts making the thing...

Look up Kiretsu on Wikipedia. It's how the Japanese do business and basically means half the names on that list are the same company.

They aren't the same, they hold a stake in other Japanese company's to stop western investment, keeping them majority Japanese. If Sony had a problem why do half of the company's on that list already make drives for the 360?

What ever the spec as long as they keep the controller the same size it'll be fine by me.

In practice the difference between a dozen companies that own shares in each other and always act in each others best interest (usually all controlled by a single Bank or even a single family) and one big corporation is a technicality that can't over come the language barrier. Trust me, international business is one of my specialties, and Japanese business in particular was the subject of my dissertation.

Agree with you about the controller though. The 360 has one of the nicest, most ergonomic ones I've ever used.

The move to stop you buying second hand games would also kill the rental market, i think this might all end up being bull, far too many BIG companies will lose out on billions in revenue (joint loses).
Maybe its just a scare tactic to get the big stores to offer resale percentages back to the gaming industry.
Don't think it would be a bad thing as some of the smaller developers could be saved from takeovers/bankruptcy if they got more revenue from the second hand market.

given that modern pc games can run at a resolution of 4096x2160 on DX11 and are still on DVD and increasingly on download. Why would MS consider investing in blu ray especially as PC`s dont use it as standard and gaming rigs especially tend not to use it as default because it offers low storage space.

Like Jonty said, if the next Xbox uses Blu-ray, they'll be giving money to Sony in Blu-ray licencing fees. Not to mention the Blu-ray/HD DVD split came about because the Blu-ray camp didn't want to use Microsoft's interactive services element, choosing Java instead. That's why when you load a Blu-ray, you get a spinning icon for about five minutes, because Java's slower than Jordan doing her Maths GCSE.

Blu-ray's read speed is a problem too. That's why the PS3 has mandatory installs. Xbox would do better to make their own proprietary blue-laser disc format, or use multi-layer HD DVD as the spec allows for up to 10 layers, that's 150GB per disc. Sony has to keep their drives on par with standalone Blu-ray players, meaning they can't go above two layers without potentially causing compatibility problems. Seeing as HD DVD is "dead", MS can reinvent it as they see fit and not have to worry about piracy.

Xbox already has an HD movie streaming service, would they really want to compromise that by allowing Blu-ray playback? Who'd pay for a 720p download when they could watch in 1080p from disc?

I'm not saying I'm 100% certain that the next Xbox won't have Blu-ray, because if enough customers want it, MS might have to include it. I'm saying that there are better options, and with standalone Blu-ray players coming down in price, there's not as much demand as when the PS3 was a cheap option for Blu-ray. Plus, 50GB for a dual-layer Blu-ray might sound like a lot now, but there have been dual-layer PS3 games already, so Sony might be facing a disc space problem in the future.

In practice the difference between a dozen companies that own shares in each other and always act in each others best interest (usually all controlled by a single Bank or even a single family) and one big corporation is a technicality that can't over come the language barrier. Trust me, international business is one of my specialties, and Japanese business in particular was the subject of my dissertation.

Agree with you about the controller though. The 360 has one of the nicest, most ergonomic ones I've ever used.

The big sticking point there though is that the the BDA was brought together to market blu-ray, and Microsoft would be big business for it. Whether Sony likes it or not, profit is a major factor, and allowing Microsoft to use Blu Ray in the next Xbox would yield a substantial profit. The BDA is far larger than those 9 companies, its 19 or 20 now, if MS wanted it, there is a very real chance the majority would swing in their favour because of the substantial profit.

I think msbvhn has hit the nail on the head about this though, its more down to whether or not Microsoft want to use it or want to develop their own multilayer disc tech, they certainly have the facility to do so, and they need to do something as the major studios want the extra disc space.

Personally, I think they should work on a new format for carrying games, one that is purely for games, not also for movies and TV and music or whatever. In theory they then have as much space as they like to play around with and could make something with considerably more space than BD. I think developers would get serious horn for a new format developed especially for carrying games.

Unsurprisingly, I agree with the collective thought that blocking second hand would be a mistake. As much as I tend not to go for them (one or two in the last couple of years I think, picking up old titles dirt cheap like The Orange Box), they are a lucrative industry in their own right, something evident from the rise of the much bemoaned online pass system.

I personally don't need Blu-ray (or 3D for that matter) in the next Xbox, because I already have a very nice Panasonic Blu-ray player and it's more convenient to use that for DVDs and BRDs anyway, since I have a remote - turning the Xbox controller on and off all the time when you want to pop off to get a drink is such a chore.

I'm glad about the power rumour, they really need to future proof this console. Let's not forget that even if it isn't until Christmas 2013, we're still likely to be in the worst economic crisis in (my) living memory, so people aren't going to be wanting to buy something which doesn't last. I sort of wish they would do an expansion pack like they did with the N64, just to give it a bit of a boost in the meantime.

Bad rumour to start!! But I do think games company's would be all over this like a horny meth head on a dead body

What about LoveFilm how will that work with no second hand games?
I do still buy games but I tend to wait until they come down in price.

Agree with some of what has been said before, perhaps there should be a way of passing some of the second hand sales profits on to the developers.

Also what about other options for example downloadable games, episodic content or an ONLive type service? No second hand games with these.

What about LoveFilm how will that work with no second hand games?.

That's a very good point, and obviously LoveFilm aren't the only company who deal in renting games. It just seems pretty far fetched for this to be true. Though, stranger things have happened. Only time will tell.